The Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast | Mastering Marine Power with Lithium Systems with Just Catamarans

Rafael Escobar, Service Manager at ‪Just Catamarans, shares his experience with lithium-ion batteries and advanced alternator systems.

February 11, 2025

Just Catamarans|Just Catamarans on the Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast

Rafael Escobar, Service Manager at ‪Just Catamarans, joins the Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast to share his experience with lithium-ion battery installations and advanced alternator systems for catamarans. As an expert on these two-hull boats, Rafael discusses the evolution of marine energy systems, early adoption challenges, and the impact of ‪Wakespeed's Advanced Alternator Regulators on safety and performance. Listen as we delve into the future of electric boating and why lithium technology is revolutionizing off-grid sailing.

Just Catamarans is Pioneering Lithium Solutions for Marine Applications

Just Catamarans on the Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast

Currently, the Service Manager at Just Catamarans, Rafael Escobar, has over 12 years of experience in marine lithium battery installations. With a unique career path that included stints in finance and community work, Rafael found his true calling in the hands-on world of marine service. Starting with Just Catamarans when it was a small team of five, he has watched the company grow as he honed his skills in marine electrical systems, particularly in lithium-ion and alternator-based systems. Rafael credits much of his learning to early client projects that pushed him to explore and adopt new technologies. His technical skillset evolved through hands-on experience, eventually leading him to embrace high-performance solutions like Wakespeed advanced alternator regulators and Battle Born Batteries, which are especially valuable for modern Catamarans. On this episode of The Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast, Rafael shares insights on the transformative role of lithium batteries in the marine world, particularly for high-demand vessels like Catamarans. He and host Dr. Denis Phares discuss the importance of proper regulation when charging lithium batteries. Revolutionary products like the Wakespeed WS500 ensure stable and safe power conversion, reducing the risk of overheating or overcharging. Rafael highlights Battle Born Batteries and describes how these systems outperform traditional lead-acid batteries by maintaining consistent voltage, supporting heavier electrical loads, and increasing solar efficiency. He also touches on the lithium industry’s future in marine applications as boats become more sophisticated, driving demand for sustainable energy sources. Together, Rafael and Denis underscore the transformative impact of lithium battery technology and standards in the marine world and the importance of innovation in keeping pace with the needs of modern sailors. Catch the full episode on YouTube, your favorite podcast platform, and follow along with Rafael and the rest of the team at Just Catamarans on Facebook, X, YouTube, and Instagram. [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JED2Mia9a0A[/embed]

Podcast Transcript

Denis Phares 0:11 Thank you for joining The Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast here in Annapolis, Maryland, at the Annapolis Boat Show. And my guest today is Rafael Escobar, Service Manager at Just Catamarans. Rafael Escobar 0:24 Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Denis Phares 0:24 Thanks for joining me. Rafael Escobar 0:25 Definitely. Denis Phares 0:26 All right. So, Raf, you do a lot of lithium installs. You do a lot of alternator-tied lithium installs. How long ago did you get into that? Rafael Escobar 0:40 About 12 years ago, we learned a lot from our clients and… Denis Phares 0:45 12 years ago? Rafael Escobar 0:45 Yeah. Denis Phares 0:46 You are an early adopter. Rafael Escobar 0:47 Yeah, absolutely. Thankfully, clients bring us new technology all the time and have us do the installs, so I learn a lot from my clients. They usually have more time to go deeper with the finances that delve into other things I've never seen before. And so, we started off by a client handing us batteries. Denis Phares 1:03 What kind of batteries? Rafael Escobar 0:04 You want me to say the names? (Laughter) Denis Phares 1:08 You know what? No, don't say the names. Rafael Escobar 1:10 A brand that's no longer in business. How about that? Let’s just say that. Denis Phares 1:14 I know who they are. Rafael Escobar 1:15 Yeah. So, for whatever reason, they went out of business. But it was interesting, the early days, I remember they first came on the dock. You had a barrel, like a 30-gallon barrel, and you're opening this thing up and you're like, “What the heck am I opening?” And it was full of all these fireproof chips and all this stuff. Opening a lithium battery back in the day was, like, you felt like you're scared almost because they were so being overprotective for shipping. But it's come a long way, and we've come a long way with technology across the board. And the BattleBorn and the Wakespeed have been absolutely some of my favorites in the industry. Really enjoy working with them and their staff. Denis Phares 1:50 Well, 12 years ago, or even 10, 8, it wasn't common to tie them to an alternator. Were you doing it back then? Rafael Escobar 2:01 Yes, we were. When we were first doing a lot of our custom alternator, external regulation, that battery company, at that time, had a matching regulator, which is rare. And I remember only using it maybe about twice. And now, I remember the first time I did a Catamaran, the thing was specifically… Yeah, one was a nicer Catamaran, we did the same kind of setup. And the second one we did was a Leopard 44. Battery breaks were much smaller back then, like 700 amp hours, like, “Man, that's huge.” And we were putting 270 amp American power systems, which goes great with Wakespeed, in there. And I remember putting 400 amps into these batteries and being just blown away. It’s the first time I ever inverted air cons, that was that long ago doing it. It was so cutting edge. It was a fun experience, now it's just like every day. 48 volt, 15k inverters, it’s like a daily thing. Denis Phares 2:54 You're definitely early. So, you mentioned Wakespeed, at what point did you discover Wakespeed and start using them? Rafael Escobar 3:02 Wakespeed is five, six years ago. Got involved with working with Fanton Peugeot on some of their Catamarans. Had some demand in that area to start installing them with lithium batteries. And Rick Jones, Al Thomason, originator guys. Awesome, great support. My gosh, Al’s become such a good friend over the years because of cutting our teeth and supporting me when the app hadn't dialed in, when you guys got involved the way it is now. Having to do putty and learn programming with Al. I love challenges, I love working with very smart people. And Al, as you know, is one of the smartest guys out there. He's on another level. Such a great experience to speak with a Catamaran when you have regulators, all I gotta do is to connect them. I don't have to have a third module with 20 wires going to it, I just have an ethernet cable shooting across, and they communicate. It was a game changer from what we experienced on the Catamaran, having dual alternator regulators. It's so much easier. So much clearer. Denis Phares 4:05 Al is great. I knew Al before we became involved with Wakespeed, just through various organizations and developing regulations in the RV industry, and so I started working with him on those committees. And we kind of gravitated to each other because we both like talking tech a lot, so it was a lot of fun. But yeah, he definitely made a great product. And Wakespeed, I think, really changed the industry a great deal. Rafael Escobar 4:36 A lot of imitators right now. Denis Phares 4:39 Yeah, absolutely. So, in terms of Wakespeed, if we can talk tech a little bit here, you were early on with alternators. Let's talk a little bit about the nuances associated with charging lithium systems from alternators. Why do you need a regulator there? Rafael Escobar 4:59 Multiple reasons, safety. One of the biggest issues is internal regulated batteries. If you don't have external regulation communicating somehow with the batteries or monitoring voltage at least, you can overcharge very quickly, and you can have the batteries disconnect. And a few rare times, in my experience, I've seen it happen where a battery's disconnecting, alternator is still outputting a high amperage. That power has got to go somewhere, and it finds anything with a capacitor. So, it blows up your solar controllers or battery monitors. I've seen CZone explode on a couple week old boats, very high-performance style boats, and because someone set a regulator wrong from the factory. Mistakes happen, and it's catastrophic if you're not doing it right. And the cool thing about Wakespeed is it's not something where you can easily make that mistake. It's hard, very hard to create that scenario with the Wakespeeds. Denis Phares 5:58 So, the Wakespeed needs to be customized? Rafael Escobar 6:02 Yes. Denis Phares 6:03 And so, there's an initial software coding component to it. And so, now there's the Wakespeed pro that's got the Bluetooth, and you're one of the first to start implementing that. Talk about that transition and how it's helped you. Rafael Escobar 6:20 Oh, yeah, so much easier, from having that program. There's a lot of variances, and the beauty of the Wakespeed is that you can put it with almost any battery out there, almost any alternator. And if you don't have a profile that you guys already preset, I can program it to work with anything, basically. So, it's very versatile, but going Bluetooth is fantastic. When you're doing all those programming changes, you're not tethered by a wire in a hot engine room, or getting too long a cable and you're losing data because you're trying to stay in the cool air. That Bluetooth has been that first experience we had after me begging you guys for a while. It was fantastic. It was so easy. Literally, I just shoot it off to the client and had them update some stuff. You don't have to worry about them opening the box and plugging in anymore. They can sit in the back of their boat and having a cocktail and just make some changes real easy. Denis Phares 7:13 Easier for everybody. Rafael Escobar 7:14 Oh, 100%. Support, fantastic. I love it. Denis Phares 7:16 Yeah. So, if we go back a little bit, you started putting in these lithium systems, and your background then must be technical. Okay, no, it's not, so that’s a loaded question. What's your background? Rafael Escobar 7:37 Well, it's funny. They say in life you always have three careers, and I'm on my third career right now. My father's an accountant, my brother's an accountant, my whole family are master cabinet builders. Background’s Cuban, so that's where the cabinet side comes from. But got out of finance, hated it. Anyways, long story short, switched careers, met the owner of my company after my second career of working at a church with youth and community outreach, like doing altruistic things in my 20s. I'm 48 now, I started working with just Catamarans at 30. And there was five of us, and we went from five people… I've always been gifted hands-on, always fix things, always helped people fixing things, always repaired all my own stuff, built my own stuff. So, it's just natural. So, I started working in this industry, and this Catamaran world just took off. And so, 17 years, it's been a wild ride from five guys on our service side to 30 on service, another 15 to 20 on sales within our company. And being the leader in the industry with Catamarans and with, a lot of times, new technology. Having the opportunity in a company big enough where I can come to boat shows and meet new people, new technologies, and go crazy and try something new. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but it's been great. It's been a really good experience in the marine industry. Denis Phares 8:54 But it sounds like you really miss finance. Rafael Escobar 8:59 I love numbers, I hate sales. But we all do sails, but boats are fun. Helping people experience and live their dream is a wonderful experience. It really is. Denis Phares 9:11 But do you like to go sailing yourself? Rafael Escobar 9:14 I do like sailing. I don't have time to go sailing, unfortunately. The company in the years has grown so much., it's hard to get out of the marina. Keeping up with clients and giving good quality support to clients takes a lot of time. So, we're getting there, we're growing bigger, we're delegating, we're growing sub management. We'll get there, we'll have a little more free time. I don't know. Denis Phares 9:36 Yeah. Well, you and I are similar in that we get to enjoy vicariously through our customers. Rafael Escobar 9:41 Yeah. Absolutely, exactly. Denis Phares 9:42 It's only a little sad. Rafael Escobar 9:43 It's so true. That's funny. Denis Phares 9:48 So, the response of your customers to these lithium systems, do they know they want this, or do you recommend it? And they're like, “Wow, this is night and day.” How does that…? Rafael Escobar 10:00 Oh, wow. Early on, the price was so shocking for people that it was very slow integrating lithium. It was like, we did one one year, another one the second year, and then you do two or three every couple years. And, all of a sudden, it went to I'm buying them by the pallets from multiple companies. People know they need them now, they understand the value. I just priced a job from a lightning strike that I'm converting AGM to putting lithium in, and I'm able to do a comparison, and it's the same cost, if not cheaper, to put lithium than a high-end AGM. The market's really changed. And the game changer. I always tell people it's a game changer, and they always come back and like, “Oh my gosh.” If they have experienced sailing… Denis Phares 10:45 You mean the GC3 battery, which game changer are you…? Rafael Escobar 10:51 That's awesome. That's a great slogan for the GC3, which I love. GC3 goes great with lagoons, Fanton Peugeot because of the shape and form, fits great on those Catamarans. Denis Phares 11:03 Sorry, go on. Rafael Escobar 11:04 The game changer… They do come back to us and they say, “Man, that is the game changer.” The voltage level, the depth of discharge, it just really changes. Your electronics work better. The voltage is staying at 13 rather than sitting at 11.5. Denis Phares 11:17 So, do the customers see that? Do they see this sort of the specifics of the electrical system, and know that it’s healthy? Rafael Escobar 11:23 Anyone who's aware at all sees the difference. Your lights are more even when you're on a boat. Go on a boat, you get lead acid and the voltage starts dropping drastically. Your lights change color. You don't experience that with lithium. It's a healthy way. And the biggest overcoming it with getting people to convert to lithium was the fear of fire. I've seen fires for every other reason, but lithium, on a boat. I've never, in my career, have personally experienced a fire dealing with lithium. Denis Phares 11:54 But if there is one, and lithium happens to be on the boat… Rafael Escobar 11:58 I've seen that as well. Yeah, I've seen as well, I've seen them submerged… Denis Phares 12:01 They blame the lithium then, right? Rafael Escobar 12:03 Yeah. But I've seen that, and I've seen the batteries melt down and burn and don’t ignite. The safety protocols you and everyone in the industry has moved towards, they're almost impossible to create a fire unless it's a really loose connection and a really bad installer. It's completely safe now. You can start a fire with lead acid just about as fast as you can with lithium. Denis Phares 12:28 Exactly. It's power. Power, you can have sparks, you have voltage, you can… Certainly, we agree there. And you're certainly putting out a product that you feel confident in, and the feedback must be really great from your customers. Rafael Escobar 12:46 Absolutely, absolutely. It is huge. Someone might come in buying a new boat, adding lithium because they know they need to do it and they have big budgets. They might not appreciate it as someone who's an old, salty sailor that finally has got enough money to make the flip, and, my gosh, they come back giddy. It really changes how you sell completely. And one of the biggest benefits that most people don't know is, obviously, you know, solar. Your solar production increases by 25% just by the ability to absorb faster. Literally, I have formulations in my head to explain how solar works with people depending on what battery they have on their boat, so they know what to experience and where they're at in the world in the sun. But it takes a lot of setting customer expectations in this industry, which is the hardest thing to do. But with lithium, you can build the expectation high and it always meets it. Denis Phares 13:37 Mm-hmm. So where's the industry headed? Rafael Escobar 13:39 Oh, I think I can ask you that question. (Laughs) Denis Phares 13:43 I can tell you the lithium industry, I'm asking you about the sailboat. Rafael Escobar 13:48 Oh, sailboat world. Boats are getting bigger and faster. And back in the day, Catamarans we worked on, I would say the average Catamaran we worked on was maybe half a million to a million dollars, and they're 40 to 50 foot. Now, the average is just under a million to like 7, 8 million, and they're 40 foot to like 80 foot now. That's the average Catamaran. Things are getting bigger and fancier. People are really jumping on the Catamaran wagon, per se. And it's just going along, the more expensive, the higher-end batteries, the bigger. On a Sunry, if I put 70 kilowatts on a boat, that's probably one of the bigger installs I've done. Denis Phares 14:35 It’s like a giant… Rafael Escobar 14:36 It wasn't electric load either. It was just… Denis Phares 14:39 As the house bank. Rafael Escobar 14:41 Yeah, just massive. Denis Phares 14:43 Yeah. You could have a nice party on that boat. Rafael Escobar 14:45 Yeah. And the industry's definitely going electric. Are we there fully? There's good solutions, they're not the most environmental friendly or off-grid, because the only way true to off-grid, if you pulled, I don't know, a football-sized barge behind you with solar, only way you truly be off-grid then you got to drag it. So you have to have generators pushing your lithiums. And we do high voltage 400 volt batteries now pushing electric drives, and 400 volt DC generator installing, actually, the next two weeks, to push these crazy batteries. And I got a 44-foot power boat fully electric, and it's pretty wild. A lot of our sailboats, we sell the Windelo, that's full electric. But they're all diesel generators, of course still. Denis Phares 15:33 Yeah. When you're out on the water, the only place you can get energy from is the sun or the wind. Rafael Escobar 15:37 Yeah. Denis Phares 15:38 Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Rafael Escobar 15:40 Thank you, Denis. Pleasure. Denis Phares 15:41 I appreciate your time. Rafael Escobar 15:42 Absolutely. Denis Phares 15:43 Rafael Escobar, Just Catamarans. Thanks for tuning in to The Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast. Be sure to subscribe on any of your favorite podcast platforms. [End Of Recording]